Episode Transcript
[00:00:02] Speaker A: Welcome to Life and Limb, a podcast from Thrive Magazine all about living well with limb loss and limb difference. I'm Jeff Thiessen, publisher of Thrive magazine and your podcast host. My guest this episode is Kirsten Woodend. A nurse of 40 plus years and an above knee amputee of about 7. She is presently an associate professor of nursing at Trent University and did two terms as the Dean of Trent School of Nursing. She has also served as the President of Canadian association of Schools of Nursing. But today, Kirsten is the president of the Amputee Coalition of Canada. And with her research interest in aging persons and self management in the health system, it's certainly natural that her current projects include osseointegration and peer visiting and peer support. It's a pillar of what the Amputee Coalition of Canada does. Welcome Dr. Kirsten Wooden. Kirsten, how are you?
[00:01:02] Speaker B: I'm doing fine. And Jeff, I retired, so I'm now an emeritus professor.
[00:01:07] Speaker A: I'm sorry I missed that.
[00:01:10] Speaker B: That's okay.
[00:01:13] Speaker A: But as I've said to you before, you are so busy, I don't see how that word retirement quite fits with, with your professional and community lifestyle.
[00:01:23] Speaker B: That that's the best way to be retired though is, I suspect, Jeff, when you choose retirement, you will be as busy as I am.
[00:01:30] Speaker A: I kind of think so. I kind of hope so too.
Kirsten, I, I do want to ask you about your motorcycle accident and not so much about the details of, of the crash, but more what it was like as a healthcare professional living health care from the patient perspective. Before I do, though, I know life for you still involves pitching hay and hauling water buckets and shoveling manure. Let's start with that and what life is like on a hobby farm and maybe life on a hobby farm in the winter as an above knee amputee.
[00:02:06] Speaker B: Yeah. And they certainly didn't think about what it's like to kick a prosthetic knee through a snowbank because this morning, with the heavy winds last night, those snow banks, you know how packed they get. You cannot kick a prosthetic knee through those snow banks. So it, it can be lots of fun. I had to get out early this morning to the barn because one of our donkeys is not doing very well and we're having to bring him in at night. So I had to get out there across those snow drifts before we got the driveway plowed and, and send the poor things out in minus 16 weather. But I know it's going to warm a little bit today. Yeah. And my husband is Disabled too. So I was just saying to our niece, who was surprised at my marching out to help him fix the plow again the other day, that we still do these things, but we've discovered that you have to think things through and work together as opposed to just running out and, you know, crashing through a problem the way we used to when we were both abled. We figure it out.
[00:03:06] Speaker A: Yeah, I'll bet you do. And I had horses for many years. And you have horses as well. Right?
[00:03:11] Speaker B: Good horses as well. Yes.
[00:03:13] Speaker A: Yeah. So you just can't rush things with them. It's. Right.
[00:03:20] Speaker B: And they really want these days. Well, I've taken to spoiling them. We've got some alfalfa and. And they've. They know that I'm going to bring an alfalfa flake out in the morning. But. But they want to sort of cuddle with you and have the alfalfa and keep you from getting the alfalfa to the other animals. They're kind of fun in the morning, but you just. You have to take your time with them. And it did take me a while to learn to be confident around them again because they're not mindless. They are careful, but they're big and they can knock you over. They have knocked me over. So I had to learn again how to be with them in safe ways.
[00:03:59] Speaker A: Yeah. It's interesting you say that. And I think at the same time I found with my horses they kind of learned how to be with me that if they were head bobbing and I am just not going to get that lead, shank that lead rop on your bridal. If you're behaving like that. And we're just going to stand here longer before you get that alpha. And I found too bridling them. They would, you know, they didn't want me banging that around in their mouth on the. On their teeth, of course, struggling they would drop their heads to. Which was most convenient for me and most comfortable for them. They learn, don't they?
[00:04:34] Speaker B: Oh, they're lovely creatures. I was thinking two years, I guess we are. Water to the barn froze up. And I was in the barn moving the animals around and Coco, who's my husband's horse and a little bit more nervous than my horse Copper and he heard the. The utility vehicle coming and he startled and knocked me to the ground. And I thought, oh dear. Because he's frightened. It's a small space. He's going to step on me. He consciously did not step on me. They're. They're Quite amazing. As you point out. They do adjust to.
[00:05:05] Speaker A: They really do. Hobby horses or do you ride?
[00:05:09] Speaker B: I, I used to ride. I have not ridden since my accident because I really felt I needed a coach and busy. I mean, I went back to work very quickly after, after my accident. So my. I've been so busy. I have discovered a friend who actually coaches disabled riders. So I'm thinking that maybe she'd help me get up on, on my horse again this summer. But I haven't since the accident.
[00:05:34] Speaker A: Pardon the bad pun, but, you know, back in the saddle. There's something about that. Right.
Let's get back to health care and the provider, to the patient. You must have had a really unique perspective when, when you became a patient in the system in which you work. So tell us about that and maybe some of the surprises or unexpected challenges that you experienced when you became the recipient of care.
[00:06:06] Speaker B: Yeah, and I was a real avoider of health care prior to my. I mean, I know I was a nurse for 40 years, but I avoided health care for myself like the plague. And so it was quite a shock to be suddenly owned by the system because you were, you were broken. Because I didn't just rip off my leg. I had a head injury and a whole whack, a diddle of other, other things. But yeah, I guess right from the start when I started to be conscious because I don't remember anything about the accident or time in icu. I think I sort of started to em once I came out of icu, and I remember so many things bothering me. For instance, even with direct questions, nobody bothered to stop and tell you what had happened. Do you know, I. I discovered that my hip was fractured because I asked somebody why rolling on that side hurt, as opposed to somebody bothering to tell me all of the different things that I had had broken. You know, nobody sat down and did it, which surprised me and one of the team, the orthopedic team. So I was airlifted to Toronto. The orthopedic team actually addressed me as Dr. Wooden for some unknown reason, because I certainly didn't tell them and yet didn't really stop and say, so here's what's going on, you know, and here's what the plan is. It was so bad that I asked to be transferred back after three weeks to be transferred to the hospital in our local community, which is actually an amputee center of excellence, but for people with vasculopathies, not trauma.
And, and I had to be ambulanced back for an appointment at St. Mike's and I assumed they were just taking the cast off my left hand, but nobody bothered to tell me that it was so badly broken that in fact I was going to need multiple surgeries and we were not going back to just have a cast removed, for instance. So that, that was very eye opening to me. And I think very much changes my way of dealing with people who are in the health care system that we get. We forget to tell them to make them partners because how can somebody be active in their care when they've never even been told what's going on? The other one, and I hate to say it publicly, was I was very disappointed by nursing.
And, and I always think that a heart of a nursing role is to be an advocate for their patients. And yet I had so little advocacy from nurses. I was quite taken aback by that. I did have it from, from actually from the chief orthopedic surgeon at St. Mike's which is not a role I think of so much of for physicians, you know, and, and so as an educator, that's something else I came back with is, is this desire to make sure that we really teach that advocacy. If nurses who spend so much time with patients don't advocate for them, who does? Who knows best in terms of healthcare providers, what the person in a hospital or in the acute phase of care needs?
So I must say I was, I did start to. I did get some poems published about recovery, but I started to write some poetry about my response to the nursing care and it just felt too personal and in a way I wouldn't have wanted published because I wouldn't have wanted it really out there. Although I know I'm talking to you about it as well. But I was disappointed just to talk about that advocacy.
[00:09:25] Speaker A: I mean, it's so important for us as amputees, we know to be self advocates and if that's not in our nature, to find someone that can help us be that right and ask those questions. What do you mean when you're talking about sort of your disappointment in the advocacy, does that mean community connections weren't being made for you? Resources weren't being presented? What did you. What would you expect?
[00:09:51] Speaker B: I think the example that highlights it most for me was I would, you know how you end up in private coverage. But St. Mike said single rooms don't exist. But as I was one stretch, I was in the room with somebody who was very large man who did what's called sundowning. People who, who have cognitive impairment, who are demented often will start to become more Restless and confused at bedtime. And he. Two or three nights in a row, he spent the whole night trying to get out of bed. And I was quite frightened. Of course, I've got casts on both arms. I've got a head injury. My, my leg is not there. It's covered in a cast, what's left of it, and there's no way I can escape. And so after the second or third night of this, I was sitting up early in the morning quietly in my bed, curtains closed, with tears running down my face. And the, the Daners came on and looked at me and said, I see you're sad. I'll come back later.
[00:10:52] Speaker A: Oh, my goodness.
[00:10:54] Speaker B: I don't know that there needs to be more explanation than that, but that's, that was the epitome of some of the responses that I thought, wow, as a nurse, you just missed a huge opportunity here to make somebody's life better, you know?
[00:11:12] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, that's, that's unbelievable. I mean, what, what does that mean? Ring the bell when you're happier, I'll come back. Oh, my go.
[00:11:20] Speaker B: That's sort of what I felt like. And, and then because, you know, I'm a nurse, so I'm, you know, mildly or stereotypically slightly anti physician. And so the team, the orthopedic team comes in later and the, the chief resident takes one look at me and sort of looks at what needs to change in order to make me feel safer and less stressed out. Because I was at the point where I was thinking, could I call a taxi and get them to take me to the Royal York so at least I could get some sleep and feel safe.
[00:11:54] Speaker A: Now that's spoken like a true doctor. There we go.
Oh, that's, that's good. Kirsten, I, I understand you started on a traditional prosthetic, like, you know, traditional quote, unquote, you might say. And about a year later, because of complications with your residual limb, you turn to osseointegration. And first explain for our listeners who they may not know what osteointegration is and how you came to that decision.
[00:12:23] Speaker B: Yeah, that was kind of funny. So osseointegration is the implant of titanium into. And it doesn't have to be just legs. It could be fingers, and it can be arms below and above elbow or below and above knee. Although above knee was where people started.
And you. I think we're starting to see more bologna osseointegration, but I think they felt safer going into the larger femur. So the implant goes into your femur. After a little time, it really does bond with the femur or with whatever, wherever it's being implanted so that you screw your prosthetic on or clamp your prosthetic on as opposed to having to put a socket on. One of the advantages, you get better bone alignment wherever it is. But I think, particularly if you're looking above knee, you've got a better bone alignment with your prosthesis, but you also have a more direct connection and you also have some of what's called osseo perception. And I can't speak to arms, but I would say that that may make a fair bit of difference in terms of arms to have that direct connection with the bone. It's surprising how much feeling of the touch of the prosthetic against things actually gets transmitted to the bone. So, for instance, yesterday I was, I was doing, I guess, a little bit more difficult walking and I could feel what's called a bushing part of my attachment get loose. That looseness is minuscule, but because the implant is in my femur, I actually feel that looseness very, very early in order to intervene and fix it, tighten it. So there's this osseo perception thing that happens. There also is the risk of a permanently open stoma on your leg or arm or wherever you're implanted that poses some risk for infection. In fact, they say it's not if you get an infection, it's when. But that can be minor, rigorous activity.
[00:14:24] Speaker A: There needs to be some caution. I understand as well. Right, yeah.
[00:14:28] Speaker B: You're not supposed to run. I don't know if we're talking, when we're talking limbs, but, you know, there may be maybe limits that they suggest in weightlifting some people are trying to run and that there may be just that. There's not a lot of evidence yet, but it makes sense that you would need to be cautious. There are also a number of built in, sort of fallbacks in case you have a rotational. So if you fell and it was rotational, it's possible to fracture the bone that it. The implant is in. And so the whole setup is built with a number of, of fail safes, pins that can break so that you don't get a rotation happening that could lead to a fracture. So, yeah, you have to be aware of, mind you, when you say that I'm marching back and forth to the, the barn. I move push 7000, you know, a thousand pound horses around. I just don't run on it, you know.
[00:15:20] Speaker A: Yeah.
Kind of sticking with the osteo integration. You, I had Heard you say that you were very grateful in a way, after your accident that there really wasn't a decision that you needed to make regarding the amputation of your leg. There was no trying to rescue it. But you did make a decision about osteointegration. And so how did you come to that? And was that difficult to make?
[00:15:48] Speaker B: Not really, because in. In a way too, there was almost a no choice. Well, you know, sort of. But. So it was kind of funny because our local prosthetic group was very interested in osseo and invited the group, I think, from Niagara, and a couple of people that had been Fred, for instance, had been osseointegrated. And they did a presentation for healthcare providers and amputees at the Peterborough Library. And it was on the day that the very first osseointegration was done in Canada by Dr. Turcotte in Montreal, was sort of to celebrate.
Gosh knows why in Peter. I'm still the only osseointegrated person in the Peterborough area. So it obviously didn't pick up, but I went to it.
So four months later I got the news that I had had. So I was through knee amputee and which is really the same as above knee in terms of prosthesis, but about 8 inches above that, I had a very complex fracture. And a year after the accident, it had. There was no sign of any osseous bridging. So, you know, you're given the choice of trying to fix it. The suggestion the orthopedic surgeon made to me was just a higher amputation. Take the. The femur off at. At that level.
And I got thinking, you know, you lose height, you lose mobility. We know that it takes more energy to walk, the shorter your leg is.
And. And I got thinking also about return to work. So I'd return to work within five months of my accident.
I really didn't need to have more time off.
So it seemed to me that osseointegration was a great solution to not losing so much mobility and really getting back up and moving much faster than I would have if I had either the repair or just a straight higher amputation. And so that was why I chose the osseointegration, because it was a little complicated because of this fracture that I had an intramural nail to hold the pieces of bone together, but it also had a hip fracture. So I have a compression screw in my hip that runs down the outside of my femur.
It was suggested that Montreal hadn't done enough of them to deal with. Somebody had These extra little twiddly bits. And so I. I went to Australia where they'd done quite a few of them. And of course, Canada wasn't covering it at that time. It was still considered experimental. So I just. I did three, you know, being a nurse and scientist, I did a chart with three columns straight. Amputation repair versus osseointegration. And. And then did my research and filled in all the little slots. And that's why I ended up with osseointegration.
[00:18:31] Speaker A: Good approach. A really good approach.
That was what, about five years ago? Six years ago.
[00:18:39] Speaker B: Almost six now, I think. Yeah.
[00:18:41] Speaker A: Yeah.
What I'm hearing from you today, and this I know about you, you were very determined in your recovery and your rehabilitation when you talk about how quickly you got back at it. But you've also talked about that feeling that you remember the first time you stood up on a. On a. On your prosthesis, and you've mentioned that in other interviews. So talk about that. What did that feeling mean or really translate to?
[00:19:13] Speaker B: Joy. And so I was in a wheelchair for my leg took a long time to heal. I really got my prosthetic and went back to. To work. There was actually a debate there whether I was going back to work in my wheelchair because my leg took five months to heal, and I was in a wheelchair for five months. And I. I had dreams that my husband went down to the basement, carved me this wood prosthetic, and he brought it in the morning, and I'd get up and I'd stand up. So obviously I was kind of ready for this. And all I can remember when I stood up, and if you see a picture of me when I'm first standing is this incredible joy. So I love it on peer visitor sites when people post pictures of getting their leg and standing up. I. I remember that excitement that I felt when I first stood up. This was ridiculous. It was only five months that I wasn't walking, but it really felt like this huge gift, you know, to stand up and move again.
[00:20:07] Speaker A: Yeah, that's something that's a bit foreign to me as an upper extremity amputee. I mean, our first days with upper limb prosthetics are very frustrating. You know, trying to figure things out.
[00:20:19] Speaker B: You bet. And they. I think, to some extent, don't they remain frustrating, Jeff, because it's. It's a more complicated function to replace.
[00:20:30] Speaker A: Yeah, it's been a long time for me, but, yeah, it never remember what. You know, why am I cutting? Play DOH and Plasticine with a plastic knife and a plastic fork. But you know, today when I'm in the keg cutting the steak, maybe so, so I remember always saying my physiotherapist, which I've forgiven, you know, caused me great pain and my ots, my occupational therapist, who I've forgiven caused me great frustration. But method to their madness, I suppose.
Anyway Kirsten, you, you, you've talked about and this I find really interesting too, you being a healthcare professional, that even as a nurse, as a healthcare researcher, as an administrator, we talked to you about you being, you know, a dean, you really didn't know much about a prosthetist and I think you thought of the profession as more technicians until you came to, to learn firsthand at what they do. So what were some of those preconceived notions and, and what are the things you learned about someone I'm sure you're very close to now, your prosthetist?
[00:21:37] Speaker B: Well, first of all, I really didn't know about their existence, which is interesting 40 years now admittedly most of my bedside work was, was in a cardiovascular unit. So you know, we didn't get too many amputees in that unit. But I still, even if I look at what I've been involved in nursing education, that we don't teach a lot about the outcomes of vasculopathies, for instance, which are fairly common and 80% of approximately persons with amputation or LIM loss have got there because of, of diabetes or other things that cause vasculopathy. So it, it surprises me how little we teach or talk about it in nursing. And I actually taught a chronic disease course and so you would think I would have known more than I knew, but I, I didn't. So I guess first of all I wasn't even sure this profession existed and then very much would have thought of them as that person who went down to the basin and carved the leg, you know, so that I could get up and walk.
But I was, I, I met my prost, I think when I was in hospital and he came in to, to help them fit a shrinker for me. And so, and then I didn't meet him for some time because my leg took a long time to heal.
They are a huge part of a person with limbs limb loss's life. And I have preceptored second year community nursing students doing projects related to limb loss and have my prosthet has been wonderful and he allows them to come in and spend a day with them so that I'm trying little by little to get More nursing students to be exposed to something that's real for people and understand that a prosthetist is a health care professional just like them, but just does different work. I'm actually working with a student now, a community research student, and she's still thinking about her occupations. And that's one of the things that I'm trying to open her eyes to as, as prosthetics as one of the potential occupations that she thinks about as she finishes her undergraduate degree.
I do try when I'm working with students to highlight the role of the prosthetist and have them explore what their role is as a healthcare professional and how, how it's synergistic or different than nursing, for instance, that they're learning.
[00:23:58] Speaker A: So, yeah, yeah, it really is. I'm fascinated with. Sorry, Christine, go ahead.
[00:24:04] Speaker B: No, I was just thinking how important a prosthetist is and I feel badly when people post and they've had challenges and I've been so very lucky in a community that only had one prosthetist that I got a prosthetist that he can't, he can never retire until I drop dead.
[00:24:18] Speaker A: You know, I've told mine we're going to the same retirement home, long term care, we're going together.
[00:24:28] Speaker B: I'm so glad you have that person too because that is such a huge part of our lives, isn't it?
[00:24:33] Speaker A: It really is. And you know, I've tried to explain to people before I travel, I always have to go see him because sure enough something's going wrong when I'm in a foreign country. But it's in things that sometimes they don't even understand, where they see us for an hour a month or a couple hours a month, but the rest of our waking hours, particularly with me as double arm amputee, using my arms for absolutely everything every waking hour, how impactful their work in that hour is on, on every aspect of my life. And yeah, I mean, it's a mix of science and art, but it's also social work and psychology too, I think.
[00:25:11] Speaker B: Oh, you bet it is. Yeah, very much so. And that's one of the things too, I discovered about my physiotherapist. So obviously I knew about physiotherapists as a cardiovascular nurse. We had a physiotherapist that worked on the unit and so on, but I didn't realize the importance of the physiotherapist to me in terms of my recovery. And. And so the private physiotherapist who started to follow me seven years ago, I. She's still there as my backup plan when I'm in trouble. So.
[00:25:43] Speaker A: You're very resourceful, that's for sure.
Peer support, let's talk about that. Which is incredibly important and impactful for us as amputees at any stage.
I think an age of life and as I mentioned, it's a pillar of what the Amputee Coalition of Canada does. Let's talk about two things. The benefits for the recipient who's receiving peer support from the amputee community, but also the importance of the qualified peer visitor as well. Right.
So let's talk about the benefits. What high level.
Why is it important?
[00:26:25] Speaker B: And I think those benefits sort of occur on a continuum. When you first join the, the limb loss community, there's so much you don't know. And as you heard, even I didn't know after all those years of, of nursing. And so that peer connection is really important in terms of figuring out how to navigate the world as a person with limb loss. What comes up next, what's involved in the journey, what are my res courses, etc. Because you can see as a healthcare professional, I couldn't have provided that information. In fact, I've done a peer visit for somebody, a physician who is facing amputation.
It isn't your profession isn't whether you're a nurse or a physician. That's just not something you necessarily know a lot about, even though you are a healthcare professional. And the other part of it, I think is the sense of belonging. That's something that surprises me that, that even though you might have got through that initial part of figuring out how to live as a person with limb loss, I think that part of it's our part of our genetic makeup. Maybe we need to feel part of a group that's like us. And so the peer support I think continues to be important. Even if you have been an amputee for some time, you get to hang out with people who have. I mean, it doesn't even matter if it's a lower limb loss versus an upper limb loss, you still experience some of the same challenges in engaging with the world, you know, and you get, you've got a place with people who understand that and that you can, you can talk about it. I think it's really important. So one of the things the Amputee Coalition does is it matches. People can go online and they can request a peer visit and, and we match peer visitors to the people who are requesting visits. And matches don't have to Be perfect. In fact, I've done peer visits with people who are males who have a baloney amputation, et cetera. But we do try to match as closely as possible in terms of age, gender and type of amputation and potentially some of the other challenges that the person might be experiencing.
And it's really important that we have peer visitors who understand because you don't want somebody who's coming in and telling a new amputee their whole story of I can remember being in a peer support meeting and a person was sort of talking about how it's really important that I talk to everybody and tell them sort of didn't use the word abomination, but it was almost what an abomination having an amputation is.
No, you do want some type of certification process to ensure that people who haven't worked through all of their own challenges aren't working through them with, with new persons with limb loss, but also that they understand boundaries, how to create space. It's really important to understand that this conversation between a peer visitor and a person who wants a peer visitor is not about the peer visitor and, and that you are there to create space for the person you're visiting to explore what they need or how they feel and, and then to express or ask questions about what they want to learn or what they need to figure out.
So we have a day long peer visitor training program. Last year we trained 82 new peer visitors. So we've developed new online materials that are accessible to people all the time. So once they take the peer visitor training, the manual is kept up to date and everybody has access to it. And we've also started to have quarterly peer visitors visitor drop ins and created a Facebook site so that people will have some place for ongoing learning as well. And I imagine that that will become more formalized as we move into the future. And hey, we have this amazing guest speaker coming to our next peer visitor drop in. Thank you very much, Jeff. So we're starting to reach out and try to bring people in who might help our peer visitors also do some lifelong learning in terms of being peer visitors.
[00:30:36] Speaker A: So yeah, thank you for that invitation. I'm really looking forward to it. I mean, it's so in so many layers to it. And I remember years ago I was asked to be a speaker at a bilateral upper extremity. So double arm amps is what I'm trying to say at a conference in the States. And I never thought, I thought I would never walk into a room with so much commonality. I was bombed.
I had been an amputee 30 plus years and mostly these folks were very new. So the things that I was trying to accomplish, like learning how to throw a curveball with a baseball, this, you know, oops. They had other issues and other concerns then. So yeah, it just, I was not appropriate in, in the things that I was talking about for what their needs were at the time. But like you talk common challenges, you know, I have not found another arm amputee that we don't share this. The dreaded plastic bread bag tag.
Try to put that thing back on the back. We don't even bother. Spin it, tuck it underneath.
[00:31:49] Speaker B: My husband is hemiparetic, secondary to a stroke some years ago and I leave the tags off mostly. If he's going to be accessing the.
[00:31:58] Speaker A: Bread, I'm sure he appreciates it. We do.
Well, that's great. And I want to give the website before we're finished where folks can go to ACC for peer support or to learn how to become a peer visitor. And I'm glad you talked about the training. That's so important too. Last question for you. And I've been an amputee for 45 years and I've been asked so many times what I've learned from being an amputee and what has it taught me, me about myself. And I find that a really tough question to answer sometimes just because of the many ages and stages that I've, you know, passed through. Thinking it may be the same for you. So I want to flip the script a little bit on the question and ask you this. What do you think your amputation has taught others in your personal and professional life?
[00:32:49] Speaker B: Oh, interesting. Oh, that's a difficult one, Jeff.
I can be just as impatient and pushy with a leg missing as I was before I lost one.
[00:33:03] Speaker A: Okay, so you're still the same person?
[00:33:05] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, pretty much. Maybe a little bit more. More patient. Although I've always done things like volunteer work and so on. But yes, I'm probably.
I don't know. I was going to say more mindful, but yeah. So no, I, if I think, I think. And I hate to think of me teaching somebody, but if I've demonstrated something, maybe is that something like this doesn't have to stop you. And, and I hate the word amazing applied to amputees. I don't. And, and, and that we.
Our idea of some. An amazing amputee is often somebody who's doing something physically.
Do you know that maybe we don't think of persons with limb loss Doing. And that worries me because I don't know why we, as persons with limb loss, can' esteemed for our contributions to politics or our contributions to education or contributions to research. So I guess if I want people to get something from my experience is that just because I lost my leg didn't mean that my brain fell out and that I'm still an educator and a researcher and engaged with life and, you know, so I'm hoping that that's what people around me have seen, is that. That it. It doesn't have to. Yeah, you have to work around things sometimes. Maybe it's a little more challenging at times, but. But that. And. And that we don't have to demonstrate that we are still there by. By, you know, jumping off a ski slope or.
[00:34:36] Speaker A: Yeah, it's a good point. The many levels of perception. Right. And we've talked about in some of the work we've done here, this inspiration, exhaustion, where, you know, we're. We're commended for grocery shopping or buying something.
Yeah, yeah.
[00:34:55] Speaker B: And even. Even if I, If I get an article published, it shouldn't be about an amputee publishing that article. It's about a person who did. You know what I mean? Who does that work. And. Yes.
[00:35:07] Speaker A: Yeah, I think. I don't know. It was published close to 200. Right. I mean, I don't think you need a way to go. But amputee curse them anymore.
[00:35:20] Speaker B: No, but. But I hope that the difference is that people will see and maybe one of our neighbors maybe did. She broke her arm and, and she was. She found it stressful to go through the rehab and be slowed down and so on. But she did comment on how, having watched what I. And my husband too, because it was stroke six years ago, as, you know, struggled through and got back. I think in some ways it gave her an idea that that was doable and it didn't have to get her down. And maybe that's the biggest thing I hope that people will see is that because we all will have health challenges, there will be challenges, and that. That you maybe just have to think about things a little bit differently, but that you can keep on going and you can still enjoy life. So that's why I do hope that people around me see that, you know, we're still laughing, we're still engaged.
[00:36:11] Speaker A: I don't care what you think about the word amazing. That. That was an amazing answer. Thank you. It is just so relevant and pertinent to all of us, and I think we've become pretty good problem solvers. Too. I think that's something we might be able to teach others as well.
[00:36:28] Speaker B: Yes. You should see my husband and I getting the the great big heavy cement counterweight attached to our big tractor with both of us with disability. You problem solve that.
[00:36:40] Speaker A: You do. Yeah. Kirsten, this was wonderful. Thank you so much for the education and for sharing your experience and some really personal aspects of your life.
I think it helps us all in again, regardless of what age or stage wherever we're in the ranks of the amputee community. So thank you very much and thank.
[00:37:04] Speaker B: You Jeff for all you do.
I always look forward to thrive and hearing what's going on.
[00:37:11] Speaker A: Well, I appreciate that too. And you and and your team at acc, I should say have made some great contributions to our new issue coming out, the resource Guide. So yeah, so happy that to have your wisdom and experience shared in any way we can. So thank you again. And with that, this has been life and limb. Thank you for listening. It's. If interested in peer support or being a peer visitor, please visit the Amputee Coalition of Canada's website@amputee coalition.org I have that right, correct, Kirsten amputee hyphen coalition.org you can read about others who are thriving with limb loss or limb difference and plenty more at Thrive Mag Ca and you'll find our previous podcast episodes there too. Until next time, Live well.
