Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Jeff Tiessen: Welcome to Life and Limb, a podcast from Thrive magazine all about living well with limb loss or limb difference. I'm Jeff Tiessen, publisher of Thrive magazine and your podcast host.
My guest this episode just celebrated 41 years at the same place of employment, something that's not quite the norm anymore. And for 25 of those years, he was the director of the War Amps of Canada's Play Safe, Drive Safe program and now serves in a senior advisor role with the association. Rob Larman lost his right leg above the knee when he was 14 when a friend dared him to jump on a slow moving freight train. And Rob ended up under the wheels. But not long after, he became one of the early graduates of the War Amps Child Amputee Program, which celebrates 50 years this year. And in those 50 years, the program has helped over 25,000 kids and their families manage the challenges of losing a limb and raising a child amputee. , from, from things like dealing with teasing and staring to accessing the best in everyday and recreational prosthetic limbs. Rob has been instrumental in the success of that CHAMP program as an educator and a role model. Rob Larman, welcome. And how are you?
[00:01:25] Rob Larman: Great, Jeff, thank you very much. Kind words for sure.
[00:01:29] Jeff Tiessen: Those are, I mean, those are your accolades. You've earned that. So it's a pleasure to introduce you and knowing you for quite a long time, which we'll talk about a little bit in the next little while. But I wanted to start, obviously, I want to learn more about those four decades of work at the War Amps. But let's start with after work. What do you like to do in your own time? For one, I understand you're a pretty good cook.
[00:01:56] Rob Larman: Well, let's just put it this way, I haven't made anyone sick yet, Jeff! I always enjoyed cooking when I was younger, but I'm watching my daughter go through a culinary program. I really started gravitating and following her passions and learned a lot from her and cooking.
Also, on weekends, when I'm not traveling with the association for seminars and events, I spend time with her at her different establishments, restaurants and pubs, helping out where I can. But I really do enjoy being out outdoors and by the water, boating, cottage life and of course, activity to get exercise. I like to get some golf in there. If you can hit one nice ball, it always makes you come back and play another round.
[00:02:49] Jeff Tiessen: I'm not a golfer, but that's all it takes. Just one good shot. I suppose we talk handicaps, right? What's your handicap? In golf I'm talking about.
[00:03:01] Rob Larman: Yeah, right leg above knee. That's what my handicap is! I don't play enough to really score out a handicap. I'm not competitive when it comes to that, Jeff, something I've learned; I don't have that competitive edge. I like to get out and enjoy the game. And as I said, , when you can hit a couple of nice balls during. During a game, then that's what makes you go back. And I kind of look at tackling the golf course as about tackling my own personal challenges; as being able to excel and maybe get a little bit better. But I don't really follow handicaps.
[00:03:39] Jeff Tiessen: Well, sticking with going back, I was really fascinated with a couple of stories you told me about your young kids when they were young. A really pointed question that your son asked you at breakfast one morning, and more of a reaction from your daughter related to some stares you were getting when you were out at a hardware store, I think it was. So from a parenting with a disability standpoint, share those stories again and importantly, to your responses.
[00:04:09] Rob Larman: Yeah, , it's really interesting, Jeff, because sometimes, being a disabled—we use that word loosely because really, just because you have a disability doesn't mean you're unable to do things. But, raising your children, you were always there for them, setting a positive role for them to excel in whatever activities they were participating in. But we never really got inside. I never really got inside the mind of my children. Never. I never knew what they were thinking about me having one leg. And I remembered my son that morning, having breakfast out on the deck, and he just had this really peculiar look on his face, and he said, dad, if you could have anything in the world, what would you want? And I pondered, because really like that, that's a broad, broad question. And what would you want?
And he. He looked at me with this bewildered look, and he said, wouldn't you want your leg back? And I had to pause and really think long and hard about that. And I said, I don't think so. I said, look at what I've been able to do, Riley. Look at the work that I've been able to do with the War Amps Child Amputee program, helping young families going through traumatic loss or a loss of any kind.
And look. Look at the work that I was doing with police forces, educating young children about the importance of making good choices. , when you're out in the playground, and where you play and how you play. I looked at that and I thought, no, I wouldn't want to change that. Yeah, sure. , being an amputee, you experience a lot of discomfort at times through excitement, selling in different activities or overdoing it, which I'm sure we'll get into. But, , there's a lot of positive that comes from it as well. I never thought that having my leg back would be a better thing. You speak about my daughter and we talk about the individual amputee has people staring at them constantly, especially upper limb amputees, because that's more visible. Whereas a leg amputee, if they have a pair of pants on, it's not as visible. Unless, of course, you're like myself, who will wear shorts as much as possible because it gives me comfort, especially in the summer, of course. Right? And and I'm okay with that. But we never realize the impact of others when you're with them very quickly. I know my brother sometimes walks eight feet behind me because he wants to see the reaction of everybody looking at me. I find that kind of weird. But anyways, there was this one time I was in a hardware store with my daughter. She was young, maybe seven or eight. I was holding her hand because I was like walking fast because we had to pick up school projects. , you have to be a dad and help your kids. School projects. We were walking again rather quickly, and I felt a pressure on my hand, and she was squeezing my hand so hard. I stopped and shook my head. I took her hand off and I said, that hurt. Meg, what's wrong? And she goes, I don't like everyone staring at you. And, , I had to stop at that moment and go, wow. I didn't realize the impact that it can have on my children, people staring at their father and not maybe understanding why they're staring. And I explained to her very quickly, Jeff, and as I'm sure you have over the years, where it's morbid curiosity, here we are walking through the hardware store, quickly at that, and there's a guy with one leg, the pipes hanging out, and they've never seen anything like that. Before I said, you have to recognize that. And I explained that to her, but assured her that she should never, ever let other people's stares or gawking, if you will, hinder your progress in life. You have to be confident who you are as an individual and look beyond that.
[00:08:45] Jeff Tiessen: Yeah, I'm sure that's something you share a lot in your work with CHAMP families. Right. With the siblings, I would imagine.
[00:08:54] Rob Larman: Well, it's a philosophy within the organization, like a winner's circle philosophy and coping with the challenges and obstacles that come along with being an amputee. You talk about hurdles and when you say that word and you envision an image of a hurdle, you see people always jumping over. Well, that's not always the case. You don't always have to go over top the hurdle. You have to assess the hurdle. What's the challenge? And sometimes it's going around, sometimes it's going underneath. It's adapting your approach to overcome for you to excel and be a part of that winner's circle where you can take any challenge and conquer it.
[00:09:40] Jeff Tiessen: Yeah. Interesting. When you talk about your kids, it takes me back to the years when mine were young too, and I had a lot of, I think, anxiety early on as a dad with. Without hands, particularly around their safety, holding hands, walking across the street. And it was interesting. Quickly I learned that they were quick to grab my hand. They wanted to be as safe as much as I wanted them to be safe. And what I didn't know for a number of years was they would get asked, what happened to your dad? What happened to your dad? Me, as you said, upper extremity amputee, me being a double arm amputee, kids after birthday parties or whatever. So, I had an electricity accident when I was 11. My wife ran into one of the soccer moms at a grocery store and they had never asked. We had socialized with them, and the mom said something along the lines of, yeah, we never knew that Jeff had a barbecue accident.
Said what?
Yeah, your son told our son that it was a really windy day and the barbecue lid came down. So, I mean, this is their way of coping. Told the same story over and over. Now we're just gonna make up stories, but yeah, and I had never had that conversation with him either.
[00:11:07] Rob Larman: It's interesting, Jeff, the stories that can come out after repeatedly explaining what happened to you and sometimes you just don't want to get into it. So, hey, come up with a good story.
[00:11:21] Jeff Tiessen: Yeah.
[00:11:24] Rob Larman: Don't let a good story come and get in the way of the truth.
[00:11:26] Jeff Tiessen: Of the truth. That's right. And I'm sure we could start recounting the stories we've told, but we won't.
You talked about adapting and that's where I wanted to go next because as card carrying amputees as we are, we need to adapt to change throughout our lives and particularly as we age. And you're, I think you said proudly, closing in on almost 50 years of being in the amputee community. And so what impact has that had in terms of, of aging or is having and, and, and what are you doing to adapt?
[00:12:04] Rob Larman: Well, it's interesting, Jeff, because, when we're younger and we're amputees, we're, full of vinegar, if you will, and we tackle everything and we never want our amputation to hold us back from achieving a completion of a project or an activity. And I found when I was younger, you'd be doing renovation work and building decks and hopping off a deck and hitting the ground three feet below on the one leg and, not really respecting the potential damage you could be doing as you get older, preventive medicine… I found over the years. Yes, thanks for highlighting almost 50 years, Jeff, that means a lot.
But, I'm 47 years in and I've run into all kinds of complications with my foot…overuse syndrome. And it breaks down after a period of time to the point where walking or standing gets very uncomfortable. So I have to be very proactive. Go for a lot of pedicures, make sure that the foot's getting massaged.
My knee also has gone through orthoscopic surgery. There are devices on the market now where massaging knee braces with red light technology. I've been using that and it does wonders for my knee.
It's about taking a different approach now. Instead of doing all the heavy lifting and that, you get help, or you break down the load and you do maybe a couple of more trips, getting debris out of the house or whatever you're doing; but it's the mindset, looking at what you’re doing. What the job is and analyzing it a little bit clearer before you just jump in to get it done. You gotta look after your back, too. Being very conscientious of how the limbs fitting and making sure it's fitting properly, alignments fit properly; because you can throw your back out very, very quickly when you ignore some of those little signs that you might experience as an amputee. So, for a new amputee, it's something to be mindful of. It's not a scared straight approach where you're saying, don't be active, don't participate in these events or whatever. Just be a little bit smarter than the task, be a little bit smarter than the activity. Get a knee brace on if you're downhill skiing. Protect the sound limb as much as possible, too. Ensure that you don't sustain an injury to the point where it provides a real impairment.
[00:15:12] Jeff Tiessen: And socket. You've talked a lot about socket fit too, right? So key. Yeah, it is.
[00:15:18] Rob Larman: It's crucial. When sometimes we always say, gain five, ten pounds, you've got to visit the prosthetist. And in reverse, if you lose five or ten pounds, you could be going for adjustments as well.
This is something we teach children and families in the CHAMP program as well. You have to be mindful of that. Sometimes you can get away with a loose socket and keep going, but you could be providing or provoking potential medical problems, back problems, the same with the extra weight that you carry. So you have to be mindful, you have to keep a close eye on that.
[00:16:00] Jeff Tiessen: Yeah, for sure. You said something that really made me kind of stop and pause, and I wasn't sure if I agreed, but I understand where you were coming from. You said amputation does define you, and for so many others, they don't want amputation to define them. But talk about your perspective on that. Where are you coming from with that?
[00:16:27] Rob Larman: Well, Jeff, I think it maybe has a lot to do with the fact that I've spent 41 years working with the War Amps and in an educational role for many years where you're going out in the public and you're talking about the importance of safe play and the consequences of not playing safely. It was always Rob Larman, the above knee amputee. When you're wearing shorts, it's always creating an opportunity for people to ask questions. So it does become who you are. As I've always taken the role, Jeff, of answering the questions of people. I really have, because I think education is important.
I think that it eliminates the negativity associated with the disability. When you can educate someone, the next time they see an amputee, they wouldn't maybe stare at them because they've learned about amputation, they understand how the artificial limb works or what have you. So I just find that you're always in that educational role. I remember one time, Jeff, I was getting ice cream with a friend of mine, and she couldn't make up her mind. So we're there and we're trying to decide what ice cream, and this little boy came in with his father, and I had a pair of shorts on, and he kept looking me up and down, up and down, but he wouldn't say anything, right? So I kind of winked at him, and he kind of smiled and put his head down. And I said, it's a pretty cool leg, isn't it? And he just shook his head like, yeah, it's really cool. Like, what kid doesn't like robots, right? And I said, do you want to know how it works? And I explained to him how it works and how it has a computer and spent that little bit of a time, educated him. He didn't want to touch it. But, I answered some questions for him, and he got his ice cream, licked it away, and away he went with his dad. But as his father was leaving the store, he turned around, he said, excuse me, sir. I said, yeah. He said, thanks for taking the time to do that. That's great! That empowers me because I just help that little guy understand something. And maybe the dad's going to speak to him a little bit about that on their way home as they enjoy their ice cream. I don't know.
[00:19:01] Jeff Tiessen: Yeah, and that's a great story. And I want to ask about the sort of the flip side of that. And from my own experience, same thing, kids want to know what happened, and kids get a free pass on that. I explain and kind of dumb down the electrocution story. Often parting words are the parents are using it as a teachable moment for their kids. See, you got to play safe. Well, I right away become this object of a bad choice, the consequence. Right. So in all your life of educating, you've had to position yourself, I guess, in that way, as you are the consequence of hopping a freight train. Maybe it just wasn't the right thing to do. Forget the maybe part. So has that ever taken a toll on you, like, mentally or psychologically?
[00:20:00] Rob Larman: No, not really, Jeff. If we're going to be honest, when that happened to me, I was in a very dark place in my life. It screamed out, why me? Why me? Why me?
And as time started to pass and I got stronger and I was able to walk well, and I was riding my bike again, and I had the opportunity to meet other amputees, I started to realize that the work I was doing…maybe that was the answer. Maybe it was the answer, that, I had enough strength within me to be able to turn it into a positive, whereas maybe someone else wouldn't have been able to turn that into a positive.
So it never negatively impacted me mentally.
It was draining at times because you were constantly sharing that story, and I like the way you put it. I mean, yeah, I'm the consequences of a bad decision, but isn't it better to learn from someone that went through it, and maybe that changes your mindset before you go to do something that is kind of silly or dangerous. Right?
[00:21:19] Jeff Tiessen: Yeah. And no doubt you've done that with all the work with Play Safe and Drive Safe and the PSAs we've seen on TV and all the hours you've spent schools and with police. Yeah, no doubt you've saved a few limbs along the way.
[00:21:32] Rob Larman: I'm just glad that that's the time I spend with police!
[00:21:36] Jeff Tiessen: Unless there's something else you want to share?
[00:21:38] Rob Larman: Not today, Jeff!
[00:21:40] Jeff Tiessen: Right, then. I find there's this real irony and what you ended up doing as a career, as we talked about play safe, drive safe, the CHAMP program, when that first CHAMP seminar that you went to was really a place you didn't want to be, that your mom really laid the law down and said, we're going. The War Amps are supporting you. You are going. But you have said that that was the first step on your road to acceptance, I guess might be a way to put it. How so? And talk about that first experience.
[00:22:16] Rob Larman: Well, it was a tough one. Jeff, Because I was very young. I was just edging on the age of 16, I guess at the time, or 15. And I did not want to be associated with people missing limbs, because it showcased my challenges that I knew I was struggling with. And after arriving at that CHAMP seminar, well, I was dragged. I spent a little bit of time down at the pool the very first evening after dinner and I saw all these incredible, young, beautiful children, playing around, jumping in and out of the water and there was arms and legs scattered everywhere and I kind of chuckled to myself; and then I saw this young guy get out of the water and he didn't have upper limbs and I just thought, wow! And then he grabbed a towel and he started drying himself off and he put on these two above elbow artificial hooks.
Like it was a daily activity, of course, but like there was no tomorrow. It was very natural. And that was you. That was you! And I remember throughout the course of the weekend, you never knew this, but I was doing what all those morbid curiosity people were doing; I was staring all weekend. I was watching you have a meal. I was watching how you did certain things. And with that experience in hand and seeing all those kids around the pool smiling and laughing and having fun, I really had to look deep in the mirror and say, what's wrong with you, man? If all these people can handle it and have a good time, what's stopping you?
What is stopping you? Along with great veterans like Cliff Chatterton and sports consultants like Carl Hilzinger and all the positive messaging; I started to buy into that and I started to realize that you got this, you can do this. And you have this enormous organization behind you providing great artificial limbs, great advice, great opportunities to connect with so many other amputees and let's face it, we're stronger in numbers. When you're in a community of amputees, you learn from one another and that's what we do at our CHAMP seminars. But we're also sharing some of the challenges and how we over overcome them. But that really, Jeff, had to be my road to acceptance and independence; and knowing that I was going to be okay.
[00:25:23] Jeff Tiessen: So you were the guy that was always staring at me that weekend! That was me. Yeah, that I know. And I thought you wanted to be friends. And we did become friends.
[00:25:33] Rob Larman: We did become very good friends. There's many, many stories that we won't delve into. But yeah, there was lots of times that you and I represented the work of the War Amps at various venues and public awareness projects. And yeah, I mean, we did become very good friends and I learned a lot and I still do.
[00:25:57] Jeff Tiessen: It's terrific. Let's jump into a little bit more about the CHAMP program. So celebrating 50 years and it does so much and you just gave a great story on what it did for you, but there's so many layers and levels to what these seminars do. So talk about, be it the program, the seminar itself, what are some of the things that it provides or offers young amputees, but families too?
[00:26:26] Rob Larman: Well, yeah, it's a full package program, if you will, and very well rounded. It was started in 1975 by our war amputee veteran members when our CEO Cliff Chatterton spoke about everything; was there for the war amputee veterans at that stage. But who was going to speak for these children? Who is going to be there to set the mark, if you will? And that's why they started CHAMP. And you look at the financial assistance, that would be a very big hindrance on any family having to absorb the cost of artificial limbs because of the lack of funding for these devices.
And so it starts with the funding and it starts with the seminars and really, to coin a phrase, amputees helping amputees. That's how our veteran members overcame and segued back into society and were very successful. So with those same philosophies, they provided a community or an environment at these CHAMP seminars for children to come together to realize that they're not the only one. They're not alone. There are other people. And that community gets strengthened and the support then becomes life changing, if you will, because you can speak with experienced amputees and families can speak with other families that maybe had the difficult challenges, but they're beyond that now. But continue to come to the seminar to offer that peer support in order for children to get on that right road to independence. And again, it's philosophies, it's outlooks, it's winner's circle philosophy. Not looking back at what you've lost, look at what you have right in front of you. And that's ability, strength, dreams, desires, and you can succeed, right? So you provide the right level of sorry, you provide the right artificial limbs to meet the need and a child will keep up with their peers, if not surpass them. So through CHAMP, we're able to bring people together. And we're very, very lucky that the Canadian public supports our key tag service, which allows us the funding to run programs like CHAMP and seminars. And we expanded even after Covid, when we couldn't be in contact with our families. We went virtual. We started creating sessions online so that we could be in the family's home and continuing to make that connection and strengthen the relationships that are important for the children to have access to.
[00:29:24] Jeff Tiessen: It's not an overstatement to say that there is really no other organization like the War Amps in the world. Right. The way it runs, the way it raises funds, the services it provides. It is really unique.
[00:29:38] Rob Larman: It uniquely Canadian. We should all be very proud of that and proud of our veteran members for establishing what they established because the impact now is set for far into the future. And we're not just a charity that sticks our hand out and wants and wants funds. We provide a valuable loss key return service. And and in return, you can see the work we're doing, the impact we're making in the lives of Canadian amputees, not just children, but adults as well, where we can provide the resources, the funding and the work of advocacy that we do.
[00:30:23] Jeff Tiessen: Yeah, I wanted to ask you about that too. It's maybe not as well known, but the War Amps does assist adult amputees, too, in different ways…but in similar ways, also. That one-on-one basis. So I have a problem with accessibility in my parking lot or having insurance funding problems. These are things you help us with, right?
[00:30:48] Rob Larman: Absolutely, but take it from the ground set with the child. First of all, they could be having problems in the school system. They could be having problems with bullying. They can have problems with accessing certain eligible program or support somewhere. We can advocate for them. We know where to go to get the information. We know what the historical nature is of being amputees. We have over 100 years experience dealing with amputation that's been passed on from our veteran members. But, it's also helping out families and also adults deal with DTC, which is the disabled tax credit, or RDSP, the retirement savings plan for disabled people. Sometimes families or adults, they don't know, the ins and outs, and we can help support that, especially when they get denied access. We can then step in with resources and support to ensure that they get the entitlements.
[00:32:02] Jeff Tiessen: Yeah, interesting. I'm glad we brought that up because. And we could call the War Amps and speak to someone about an issue or a problem and get some help with it.
[00:32:13] Rob Larman: Absolutely. There's a ton of resources there, Jeff, and it's continuing on the work of amputees helping amputees. Sometimes there's maybe not boundaries, maybe there's obstacles that take a little bit more time or other challenges that might slow a process down. Or may have to take a different direction, but we're always there to provide the support and the resources to all Canadian amputees.
[00:32:42] Jeff Tiessen: Yeah. And I know there are a lot of great resources, from daily living to driving to assistive devices.
It's terrific the content the War Amps has for us. I've got one last question for you, and I appreciate all the time you've given already, Rob, time meeting so many amputees…so many young amputees and watching some of these youth grow up. I mean, that.
[00:33:12] Rob Larman: Thanks.
[00:33:13] Jeff Tiessen: That's a really cool perspective, I'm sure, from your standpoint, too. But is there a common ingredient or two or three in that recipe of living life to the fullest or thriving after limb loss? What are the commonalities that kind of pave that road to the youth that you've seen become doctors and lawyers and pilots and. Or whatever, but enjoying life?
[00:33:39] Rob Larman: Well, I think there's a multitude of ingredients, if you will, Jeff. I know that I work with the war amputation of Canada, and it's been a lifeline, a lifelong career for me. But you do have to look at the incredible work we do and the philosophies in which we instill in amputees and the reinforcement of funding we give. These are all really important aspects of moving to a positive mindset. But you cannot negate the importance of our the parents that are raising the children. They're doing a great job because they're adapting, they're taking the resources that we provide, the advice we provide and turn it to strength, strength they get from other families they meet at CHAMP seminars. And these are lifelong relationships that are formed.
And I think that there lies part of the nucleus to this success.
And it certainly doesn't hurt when you have an organization like War Amps that says, listen, sky's the limit! You can do whatever you want. And we turn around and say we're going to help you because we're going to establish a bursary program. We're going to make sure that you get post secondary education so that you do succeed in a good position, a good job, and reinforcing the importance of accepting your amputation and allowing yourself to become whatever you want. I mean, the stories that I've seen have melted my heart and to run into some of these people as years go on and to see what they're doing now, it makes you very proud to have been involved in some small way as an employee and in some small way of being part of that. But a bigger component is being part of the organization that has really stood behind them and giving that gentle way for them to get on that road to independence.
[00:36:09] Jeff Tiessen: Yeah, that is a nice way to sum up what the organization does, but don't dismiss what you do. I mean, I talked about you being an educator and we know you well for that. But that role model, too, is so important that peer support, regardless of maybe age difference, but the commonality of amputation and showing kids, , where they can go. So thank you for, for all you've done for our community, Rob. It's terrific. It's been great having you on and reconnecting. Unless there's something else to be shared that warrants perspective, we're going to sign off.
[00:36:54] Rob Larman: Bob, I think this was a great opportunity and I really appreciate the kind words and I look forward to putting in another, at least another 10 years for you.
[00:37:05] Jeff Tiessen: All right, you hit that 50 mark. Super.
[00:37:08] Rob Larman: That's right.
[00:37:09] Jeff Tiessen: We'll be better for it. So thanks so much, Rob Larman. And with that, this has been Life and Limb. Thanks for listening. If interested in contacting Rob, you can do that through the War Amps program.
Lots more on the website as we talked about. And I think that's waramps.ca, correct, Rob?
[00:37:31] Rob Larman: That's correct.
[00:37:32] Jeff Tiessen: War Amps ca.
And you could read about others who are thriving with limb loss or limb difference and plenty more at Thrivemag.ca. And you'll find our previous podcast episodes there too. Until next time, Live well.
