[00:00:03] Speaker A: Welcome to Life in Limb, a podcast from Thrive magazine all about living well with limb loss and limb difference. I'm Jeff Thiessen, publisher of Thrive magazine and your podcast host.
My guest this episode is Dion Chambers, a personal injury lawyer with Parlatore. I hope I said that right.
Parlatory law in Niagara Falls, Ontario.
Dionne is experienced in resolution of claims for clients with a wide range of serious injuries, including amputation, brain injury, and psychological trauma. Her work with amputee clients has increased her awareness of the gaps in meeting our needs, particularly in the area of peer support.
And so she partnered with an amputee to create a peer support group in their Niagara region.
But what's interesting too, is that Dion is deeply involved in her clients healing journeys, helping them navigate the complex medical system and advocating for their needs through her work as a litigator. And now she's bringing insights from client needs and experiences to the Amputee Coalition of Canada as its newest board member. Dion, welcome. How are you?
[00:01:16] Speaker B: Thank you. I'm good, thank you. How are you?
[00:01:18] Speaker A: I am doing fine, thank you.
Great to have you.
Let's start with personal injury law and what that means. And I'm sure it means different things to different lawyers, but much of what I've come to learn about you revolves around your reputation for exceptional client relations and a personable touch to support your clients beyond, let's say, the boardroom or the courtroom. Your compassion is often mentioned as well. So to you, what does personal injury law mean?
[00:01:54] Speaker B: Well, personal injury is.
It is a highly litigious area of law, so it does involve courtrooms and judges. So it is real litigating.
It's also kind of. It's an intense area to litigate.
Defense lawyers are often from prestigious law schools and pitted up against the insurance industry, which is really powerful in the province. So as a personal injury lawyer, we help injured people recover compensation and also access to treatment from insurance companies.
And they're very, very powerful. So they hire the best and the brightest lawyers to defend the case.
So what we do as lawyers is we help our clients navigate that system, and that really involves us being intimately involved in their daily lives and also their medical care, because their access to medical treatment and care is a big piece of the puzzle for them.
So advocacy and personal injury, to me, it means a lot of different things. So the first real kind of where it starts for me is getting to know my clients, because you can't advance the position for them if you don't, if you're not connected to what they Need.
So, I mean, it's not something I do consciously. I don't make steps. It just happens naturally. Every lawyer has different strengths.
Definitely my strength is in client care and getting to know my clients, and that's where my strength and advocacy comes from. You don't necessarily have to be a bulldog in the courtroom to be a strong advocate for your client. For me, it starts with getting to know them. And that means I have meetings in their homes, especially when they're first home as a result of a serious accident.
I don't make them come to the office, I go to them. And so I get to see how they function in their home. I get to see their challenges in their daily living.
And I also get to know them on a more personal level to see what level of emotional support they need, whether they have family members who are supportive, how their brain works, because that's a huge piece of information as to what they require.
So with advocacy beginning there, it's quite easy from my perspective to, you know, advance their needs. Like, for example, I have this. I have this one amputee client who was living alone at the time of his accident, and he didn't have.
He only had one family member in the area, his sister. Very, very private man.
But he needed PSW support because he was in a wheelchair and his house wasn't renovated.
He didn't want people he didn't know coming into his house.
So this was a really big challenge. And so the insurance company funds PSWs, but it's commonly known that they won't necessarily pay a family member to do the care jobs unless the family member leaves a job where they experience some kind of monetary loss.
And that wasn't going to work for him. So I did a little bit of digging and found an exception that if a family member also has like a PSW or nursing certification. Yeah. So I went, I went back to the sister and sure enough, she was, she was retired, but she had a nursing certification that was still active. So we got him the. Yeah, we got her set up as his PSW provider and that worked.
But I mean, yeah, I think the.
[00:06:17] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, that explains it well for, for me. And I was going to lean into a question that you touched on.
You know, that your clients are going through a really challenging time, no doubt about that. And I kind of wondered how that personal touch or that compassion translated to their lives. And I think that gentleman you're talking about, that you, you found a way to find, Find support is a real testament to that. Going to their homes Too. I'm sure that makes a big difference. Right. So that and some of those other personal touches that are your signature.
[00:06:57] Speaker B: Picking up the phone, that sounds basic, but it is not.
Because when people are going through a significant life change, such as a limb loss, oftentimes for some reason, their lawyer and their doctor are people who become really important people in their lives.
And picking up the phone and addressing whatever, you know, immediate concern they have, even it may not even be legal, honestly, sometimes it is not legal. It is navigating other circumstances that probably are not. But picking up the phone and offering just that, you know, that strong voice of confidence or reason or even support is all they need in that moment.
So that's. It sounds so basic. But honestly, that's how relationships are built, by picking up the phone and keeping in touch.
But yeah, the going into the homes is.
It's so important. Like, I have this other client who experienced the amputation and I learned about his ability to an Uber in his home because I was there and I saw him. You know, he had challenges because he has a tendency to underestimate his weaknesses and he wants to be very independent, which is great.
But he did have some challenges navigating, like his stairs to the basement.
I saw him trying to make it look extremely unsafe. So we got a home accessibility home company to come in and report what his needs were. And one of the things that they suggested that he needed was an elevator to get down to his basement. Now, defense for the insurance company didn't like that.
Extremely expensive.
But I mean, it's very easy to advocate for that. When I saw how he was trying to maneuver his way down the stairs because it was too narrow for a chairlift. That wasn't a practical solution.
But I mean, it's a huge difference between relying on information that your treatment team tells you or reading something in a report somewhere about how you're client is functioning that can, you know, it just becomes information in your brain, like other facts. But when you have. When you be there and you've seen struggles, it's much easier to.
[00:09:39] Speaker A: Home renovations.
You've kind of overseen or made recommendations for setting up treatment teams.
It's sounding very case, you know, case manager, which is great. You don't often think of, you know, your legal team as being part of that. But many of us don't really know what a legal team does. Of course.
[00:09:59] Speaker B: Yeah. And maybe many don't because we do have case managers on as part of a treatment team. But I do seem to act like one. It's true. I, I don't know if they would like that, but I'm definitely an involved lawyer.
[00:10:15] Speaker A: Supportive case management. But you also have strong professional relationships with treatment providers and medical experts. And I'm sure the extension of that really translates to your clients lives as well, right?
[00:10:29] Speaker B: Yeah, that's a really good point. Especially the treatment team because I definitely, I select the treatment providers so occupational therapists and physiotherapists and psychologists. And I want them to care as much as I do. So I select ones who I know have that caring approach. Because I mean caring doesn't necessarily mean being overly, you know, like, I don't know, emotive or like offering tons of sympathy. It's just, it's just if you care, then you're engaged and it's the, the level of engagement will completely dictate the quality of the care that they get. So I choose treatment providers who I know care and I know that trip is found in my clients. I can trust that they're there. I can trust that they are. They've got the finger on the pulse of my client and that they'll be addressing things that need to be addressed. Yeah.
[00:11:34] Speaker A: Each client and scenario is obviously different, of course, and there'd be nuances, but you know, are there some commonalities that you've seen with your clients who have lost a limb or limbs? And like you've said to me before and we chatted, the feeling of being alone. And I'm sure there are some others, but I mean those commonalities can be strengths or challenges.
Is there a common thread that you find with those that have lost a limb?
[00:12:00] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean they're obviously practical threads. I mean they require, they usually require renovation house.
That's a big challenge.
Definitely the feeling of being alone. That's something I have very much noticed with my clients because they have access to treatment providers through their insurance company, they have a lot of people around offering services and they all play a really important part in the recovery process.
But what I have found with my clients experiencing amputation is that loneliness is a big component. And I think it could be for various reasons. Some don't have a lot of family support, but even those who do have family support, their relationship with their family members change.
So I observed that relationships with spouses can change in really fundamental ways. Sometimes the spouse takes on more of a caregiving role and that changes the way that they interact and the level of support that they receive.
Sometimes they feel guilty that their spouse is providing so much care.
So I'VE noticed that certainly a level of aloneness seems to seep into their daily lives because it's a unique experience.
And while they can have a lot of supportive people around them, that doesn't necessarily equate to somebody really understanding what it is that they're going through on a daily basis. Especially too, if they feel like they need to care emotionally for their spouse who is overwhelmed with caregiving. They just have noticed that that pattern arise a lot, you know, feel like they need to minimize the emotionality of what they're going through because their spouses are overwhelmed by the experience.
[00:14:17] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, there's an element of capitalism that we put on our bodies. Right. Our productiveness, our wage, earnings, abilities.
Bringing home the bacon, you might say. I would imagine in cases of men and women that along with grieving at the same time that that plays into it. Do you see that kind of psychological level as well?
[00:14:41] Speaker B: Yeah, definitely. I mean, especially when clients can't return to the job, that's significant or like that has been the big commonality among clients with the amputation who were working. Their entire lifestyle has now changed.
So how they lived their daily life before the accident is completely different. After they're not going to work, their relationships probably have changed. They're not able to engage in the hobbies that they once did or if exercise they really loved they relied on for, you know, emotional stress relief and things like that. And they're left sitting at home and worrying and that honestly, that's why every time that phone rings, I pick it up. Because they're usually in a state of, you know, real emotional overwhelm and certainly can't necessarily process information in a way that they would normally do.
Sometimes it's just as, you know, they receive a letter from the insurance company and they need help understanding it. Well, you know, probably before the accident they would have been able to read the letter and.
But now, you know, you just have to be extra, extra patient and perhaps that's where compassion comes in. But it's just, I mean, the change in lifestyle is so significant and.
Yeah, yeah.
[00:16:17] Speaker A: So, you know, someone that's experiencing all those aspects of life after an injury, traumatic injury, they are not alone. Whether they, whether they know it or not, others are experiencing those as well. And that probably leads to a good pathway to talk about peer support, which I know you are a big proponent of, to the point of becoming a co founder of an amputee peer support group here in Niagara with an amputee from the Niagara region as well. So I Think I understand the impetus for that group, but I haven't heard many cases where a litigator is part of creating one of these groups for us. So tell us how it started.
What was it that you see as a non amputee, I say respectfully, you know, as the benefits of peer support.
[00:17:13] Speaker B: I saw it as the missing piece in their puzzle, in their treatment recovery.
I just coincidentally had two amputee clients at the same time and they were both experiencing the same thing. They had tons of support with treatment, they had lawyer, they had a psychologist, they had a physiotherapist, they had doctors, they had all kinds of support. But both of them were missing.
I thought in my opinion and assessment, they were missing having someone to talk to who was having the same experience.
So I talked to the occupational therapists who were on board each these clients and asked them if they had, you know, connected them with any kind of support groups. And they didn't, they hadn't and they had never thought to do so and they didn't know of any. So I took it upon myself to see if there was any of these groups locally and there weren't any active groups. So I thought, well, at the very least I could introduce my clients that they have someone to chat with.
And then I thought it would be more responsible of me to find a facilitator, someone who could actually who has been, is more mature in the amputation experience and could offer some insight. So I did that and know well and he has been, I say facilitating in a formal way, but really it's extremely informal.
It's just a place that we gather and I stay for the meetings, which is really nice, just a place and to share what I've found mainly it is, is humor. So I find that, you know, it's just a space for especially the new families, my clients to get some practical questions answered because they don't really have anyone in their lives to talk to these things about like how many socks you put on so that you put your sock at loosens and you know, pain when it can. At what point you should start investigating to see if there's a neuroma, things like that. So I mean, I think that my clients certainly benefited from the practical support from someone more experienced. And I think it's also really helped them to see another person who's experienced amputation to be so peaceful with their experience now and their amputated limb is just a fact in their life. And that's all. It's just a circumstance.
There's no, you know, there's no emphasis on disability. It has nothing to do with that. It's more just practical tips about navigating a unique circumstance.
And yeah, I think it's been really helpful. But humor, I mean, a lot of times it's just sitting around and sharing funny stories, things that have happened.
[00:20:38] Speaker A: Yeah, humor normalizes a little bit, doesn't it?
You know, I know the law profession is very much about professional development, you know, lifelong learning. Law Society of Ontario insists on it, I think. Right. With professional development credits or education, whatever it may be. But from a personal standpoint with you, it probably the context of this best would be to say in those support group meetings, are there aha moments for you learning or lesson moments in being in that informal environment with amputees that you've benefited from.
[00:21:23] Speaker B: Well, that's interesting. I can't say that I've had aha moments, but I have realized the level of knowledge I picked up being in those informal environments when I'm against or having conversations with defence lawyers on the file. Like for example, I had one the other day about the cost of one of my clients prosthetic legs and she was saying that that was extremely outrageous, the cost of it. And I said, well, he's an above knee amputee and his knee is mechanical and she didn't even have any.
I'm not criticizing her in any way. But when you're in the informal environment, you pick up all this stuff. You pick up, you know, phantom pain. I mean, I mean you can read about phantom pain, but until you really hear your clients talking about it in a way and how it affects their lives, that's when it really makes an impression.
I don't want to say use for advocacy, but it's an important piece of their quality of life that needs to be expressed to the fence.
[00:22:42] Speaker A: Certainly gives you empathetic perspective. Right.
Understanding from them. Very, very personal back to that personal duds.
[00:22:51] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:22:53] Speaker A: It would seem to me and with all you've talked about already, you have a very unique lens on what our life can be like from the point of trauma through acute recovery, longer term rehab and then moving toward independence and acceptance and new identity and humor when we can get to that point.
So I like to always wrap up the podcast with words of wisdom or cautionary notes based on on our guests experience. And again, yours is really unique from a lawyer standpoint but so immersed in the lives of your clients. So are there some words of wisdom or cautionary notes maybe for those at the front end of their journey as an amputee, which particularly is where you work. But I know in the peer support world you're working with those that are into their journey quite a distance. So what would you say to that?
[00:23:50] Speaker B: I would certainly, I certainly would definitely emphasize the importance of seeking peer support. I think that's such a massive resource that can help someone get through that acute breathing stage.
It's such a loss and that. And to, you know, to really feel hope and I hope and inspiration that life can get back to.
It may look different, but back to one with a high quality and productivity and you know, just as everyone wants to live their daily life.
So I think peer support is huge. I think also being a self advocate is really important because they will get bombarded by their lawyer and treatment team.
And what I've noticed with my clients is that they come to a point where they say enough is enough. Thank you very much for all this help, but I really want to be independent.
And that's an important crossroad that clients come to. And speaking up for yourself and your needs, I think are really important because lawyers can get a little, just, you know, want to help for sure. And having the treatment team around is very beneficial, but clients may not necessarily be wanting it at different stages in their journey. And when it's time when they're feeling a need to scale back, then the self advocacy and making sure that everybody knows what their needs are and respects them.
[00:25:39] Speaker A: You know what, to flip that question a little bit with, with your compassion and, and your advocacy and, and all that you do for, for our, our community is is there a line that you need to be cognizant of or an area that you just can't wade into as a lawyer and an advocate?
[00:26:04] Speaker B: Well, I mean, I'm very cautious in terms of emotional support offered because there definitely is.
It's very well known that clients rely on their lawyers a lot for emotional support. So there is a line there that needs to be drawn. It's always compassionate listening, but not to the level of, you know, of any kind of like reliance. Emotional reliance is something that needs to be carefully monitored, I would say.
And other than that, I'm not sure. I'm not sure that they're, you know, in terms of. I think that the care component is asking personal injury. I don't know how any lawyer can be effective in this area if they don't care about compliance.
I think as well, it's a challenge for a lot of lawyers to keep their own lives free of stress because of course you're carrying a lot of responsibility, and your clients are really looking to you to change their lives in a lot of ways. And I think that that's definitely one of my challenges, separating their needs from, you know, from how it affects me internally.
My job is to advocate for them and to get them set up.
I can, but I certainly can't, you know, solve their life problems for them. And that's. I think that's the line that sometimes can become a little bit blurred for lawyers and where a lot of stress comes from. Yeah.
[00:28:02] Speaker A: Really, really honest answer and something I hadn't. Hadn't thought of. That dependency on you, not just for financial support.
[00:28:10] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:28:10] Speaker A: Longer term. But that. That emotional psychological support as well.
Before we say goodbye, I do want to return to the topic of the Amputee Coalition of Canada, of which you're the newest board member.
Have you begun in that role?
What are you seeing there? What are you doing there?
[00:28:28] Speaker B: Yeah, I have. We've only had a couple of board meetings and it's. It's been summertime, so there hasn't been a whole lot of activity. But.
But it definitely looks like the. The. The board is trying to put in place structures that can make their support more accessible to everyone who needs it.
So that's exciting. I personally want to get into the hospitals. That's what I would like to do. I'd like to get into the hospitals and really spread the word so that when there's somebody who is facing the decision to amputee, they are.
They are informed by somebody that your support is available or directly after implication. You know, I just. That's why I became involved with this board, because my clients both were in the same situation.
They had to.
They had to make the decision because their tissue had become necrotic. And they both made the decision and, you know, experienced the acute recovery stage with no peer support. And I think that that could be a real game changer in terms of how they were able to process such a traumatic scenario and transition into the healing stage with perhaps a little bit more peace.
So, yeah, that's the role I would really like to play.
Getting right into the hospitals and seeing how we can.
How we can create some structures with some systems in there so that the word gets spread.
[00:30:13] Speaker A: Yeah.
So important.
So often when we think about peer support, it's post amputation, post injury.
Some friends who have had elective surgeries have said how important that peer support prior to that, that decision was and the research and the.
The expertise that they were able and experience that they were able to tap into. So yeah. What a great initiative. New initiative from acc.
[00:30:38] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. That should be good.
[00:30:42] Speaker A: It should be good. We need it for sure. This has been good. Thank you so much for for your time and yeah, just really enlightening the light the life of a personal injury lawyer who who has immersed themselves in our lives as well. That so appreciated by your clients.
[00:31:02] Speaker B: Yeah. And thank you very much for having me. I appreciate it. I know even on the board as well I'm the only non amputee so I so thank you for accepting me and your community.
[00:31:15] Speaker A: I'm sure with what you're bringing, no one is discriminating.
Maybe we can get gets you an honorary card. Yeah, something like that.
If if you to our listeners, if you are in need of legal advice regarding a personal injury do reach out to Dion. You can do that at her email which is dchambersarlatore lawyers.com so that's D as in Dion Chambers at Parlatore. P A R L A T o R E lawyers.com or give Dion a call at 365-645-5296. That number again, as they say on television. 365-645-5296. And if interested in finding a amputee peer support group near you, contact the Amputee Coalition of Canada and the again of which Dion is part of as a member of the board of directors. And with that this has been life and limb. Thank you for listening. You can read about others who are thriving with limb loss or limb difference and plenty
[email protected] and you'll find our previous podcast episodes there too. Until next time Live.
[00:32:34] Speaker B: Well.
